Here's a perfect example of what I was talking about -- a title, with specific fonts (probably custom made) -- and the changing pic in the middle for each book!
Yes you are very correct context is important. But that’s where you get into the vibe you want to put across (if you had Thule as a chubby little Disney esc guy ripping apart something with lots of the color red as you said it would still be for a older audience but becomes almost more comedic in its presentation while having a more “grungy” style makes it brings in a more serious tone.
Also I like the border/ background idea. I think it makes an easy way to have the cover feel more seem less from the front to the back of the book.
Also you might consider choosing a consistent font? Or even creating your own. I know your other books it changed all the time. And I guess you could do that but then you also might want to change the border/ background thingy. To suit the vibe of the font. Such as making it more industrial for gnome themed books for example. and changing it as the story progresses.
Now on that 'theme' idea, the intent was to change the font with the feel of the story.
I like the idea of certain components as the framework -- like some books might do with Celtic symbols -- and then have 'markers' (like the corners) that would change per book.
I believe he hit on the key -- and that may be you creating your own font for the titles. It will need to be special and unique to have the impact on the covers.
Sounds like this process will need some time and serious consideration.
you are walking a reasonably fine line to be honest. integrating a comic book esc style will suit you better rather than falling into the cartoon realm in my opinion especially for YA readers. one thing i would attempt is to keep is good shape language and overal composition. I started browsing book covers and these just grabbed my eye
the larger shape gives the eye something to anchor to when you first observe the image rather than it being to much for your brain to process all at once. its the combination of a detailed painted illustration, Appealing color pallet and character (not necessarily a person could be a object or just something) along with this "anchor point" that make me subconciously think that is a good image.
I could bore you with a bunch of other technical ideas like color theory and having good character silloets and all other kinds of things but you probably already know most of that and I'm just starting to learn all that stuff so... best of luck :)
Ya know Joseph, that's another aspect -- the artwork doesn't always have to be in a style as much as the contect of the art. If the subject matter is, say a couple kissing, even in a 'cartoony' style, it would be for an older audience. I'm thinking of Thule biting the chunk of flesh out of a vallen neck -- that would be intense, in any art style, if you just included the color red.
...am I making sense?
Or am I just back to having to explain things to everyone as to what I mean?
I don't want to BE right here...just to DO what's right, to get the proper results.
I'm thinking more of the third cover -- and your points are very good, just like @User51 -- in that the art style will need to be closer to realistic, and yes, you are correct ..."Comic Book" rather than 'cartoony'. Here's where the definitions used need to be clear...
I specifically mean 'not a photograph or portrait' when I say "cartoony".
Aside from comics and graphic novels, I don't recall having seen fantasy cover art that uses a comic illustration style, so I'm not sure whether the covers that have encouraged me to pick up a book would be of interest to you. I tend to like scenes over montages. I am often drawn to muted palettes, a clear central figure, and lots of background context. That last could be either landscape or built environment. I found Thomas Canty's work beautiful. He is fairly stylized, but not quite comic illustration. I have also loved Mark Ferrari, but again, not cartoon style. I think part of why I love his work is that I know it is done with colored pencil and I find that mind blowing.
It sounded like one of your critiques of the earlier covers was that they didn't make it clear the stories were YA and up. Although I loved the Wingfeather covers, would they attract YA readers? The Heartseekers and Guardians covers you refer to would also communicate stories for younger readers, to me. That Name of the Wind cover is ambiguous, but I already I know the story is appropriate for young adult and adult readers. (I purchased the original cover, which was pretty bad!) If you went for more serious and detailed drawings, like the one you use for this substack, I think that would attract the older audiences.
Good points -- and this is one of the reasons I would want to do some rough drafts and bring them here for review and suggestions as I develop a style.
I know I'll be walking a fine line,...but I started with the point that I have no interest in hiring out for artwork.
I know I have enough skill to adapt to what I need.
You know, I was just thinking about it, and if you keep Wendell on the cover, and he keeps the soul patch, that's going to telegraph that this isn't a middle school book.
I love your cartoon style like the ones you have on WantedHero.com - why not do character portraits and show them in some action pose that fits the story? Try to capture the emotion and story promise of each book with the cover art?
That is one of my main thoughts...for starters. Yes, I want to have Wendell and other characters who are prominent in the current book, acting out a scene from the story...
Here's a perfect example of what I was talking about -- a title, with specific fonts (probably custom made) -- and the changing pic in the middle for each book!
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/12/14/89/12148954f94911360f613a20ea0f9211.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/84/52/bf/8452bfac504adb2f69511c9b1eeb68a5.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/e5/df/7c/e5df7c8784030a9ccc5bfa9c82443dde.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/df/70/a1/df70a12ef2efd6fcbc06a7beaa051214.jpg
Now I know these are for younger readers -- so look at this as a PATTERN to follow and change/develop the content!
Thoughts??
BTW -- THIS is the EXACT box of books my daughter told me to buy that convinced me to start writing novels back in 2009. https://i.pinimg.com/564x/5c/2e/d6/5c2ed6a0ea8e962fcb0376aaf49bea44.jpg
Yes you are very correct context is important. But that’s where you get into the vibe you want to put across (if you had Thule as a chubby little Disney esc guy ripping apart something with lots of the color red as you said it would still be for a older audience but becomes almost more comedic in its presentation while having a more “grungy” style makes it brings in a more serious tone.
Also I like the border/ background idea. I think it makes an easy way to have the cover feel more seem less from the front to the back of the book.
Also you might consider choosing a consistent font? Or even creating your own. I know your other books it changed all the time. And I guess you could do that but then you also might want to change the border/ background thingy. To suit the vibe of the font. Such as making it more industrial for gnome themed books for example. and changing it as the story progresses.
Just a thought.
Now on that 'theme' idea, the intent was to change the font with the feel of the story.
I like the idea of certain components as the framework -- like some books might do with Celtic symbols -- and then have 'markers' (like the corners) that would change per book.
If you recall, boy...the main change in what you called 'theme' was to show either a fantasy or science fiction part of the story.
Yeah, I get that, Chuck -- I was told the books fit into a genre called "Sci-Fantasy"...but I found that odd.
But you're right, that was the intent with the font.
...what do you think of @Joseph's idea about a consistent font?
I believe he hit on the key -- and that may be you creating your own font for the titles. It will need to be special and unique to have the impact on the covers.
Sounds like this process will need some time and serious consideration.
Agreed.
Glad we have the input and help =)
If you want "impact", perhaps you should get the feedback of the monkey?
you are walking a reasonably fine line to be honest. integrating a comic book esc style will suit you better rather than falling into the cartoon realm in my opinion especially for YA readers. one thing i would attempt is to keep is good shape language and overal composition. I started browsing book covers and these just grabbed my eye
https://pin.it/3lYQCrs
https://pin.it/7K3dqGS
https://pin.it/21ZDtLQ
(keep in mind I have not read any of these books)
the larger shape gives the eye something to anchor to when you first observe the image rather than it being to much for your brain to process all at once. its the combination of a detailed painted illustration, Appealing color pallet and character (not necessarily a person could be a object or just something) along with this "anchor point" that make me subconciously think that is a good image.
I could bore you with a bunch of other technical ideas like color theory and having good character silloets and all other kinds of things but you probably already know most of that and I'm just starting to learn all that stuff so... best of luck :)
I'm trying to find better examples, and here are a few closer to the 'older' style I would look for:
As for artwork, I like this: https://i.pinimg.com/564x/7c/45/24/7c45242c2653dc1a229352b210cd2baa.jpg
For a background that I would use from book to book -- this would be an example -- then change the center artwork as the focus: https://i.pinimg.com/564x/dc/f7/97/dcf79744040d48e5d5b1e5d08bdba453.jpg
Here's a good example of how to use art with components -- and then change the color pallet. https://i.pinimg.com/564x/a1/1b/90/a11b907d034de1b2c01aa5f3175390f6.jpg
Another great merge of background and art (which can be more serious): https://i.pinimg.com/564x/17/1d/b8/171db8f725d21eede64edd3da7b4d804.jpg
Ya know Joseph, that's another aspect -- the artwork doesn't always have to be in a style as much as the contect of the art. If the subject matter is, say a couple kissing, even in a 'cartoony' style, it would be for an older audience. I'm thinking of Thule biting the chunk of flesh out of a vallen neck -- that would be intense, in any art style, if you just included the color red.
...am I making sense?
Or am I just back to having to explain things to everyone as to what I mean?
I don't want to BE right here...just to DO what's right, to get the proper results.
I'm thinking more of the third cover -- and your points are very good, just like @User51 -- in that the art style will need to be closer to realistic, and yes, you are correct ..."Comic Book" rather than 'cartoony'. Here's where the definitions used need to be clear...
I specifically mean 'not a photograph or portrait' when I say "cartoony".
Thank you for calling me out on that, Joseph.
You are spot on.
Aside from comics and graphic novels, I don't recall having seen fantasy cover art that uses a comic illustration style, so I'm not sure whether the covers that have encouraged me to pick up a book would be of interest to you. I tend to like scenes over montages. I am often drawn to muted palettes, a clear central figure, and lots of background context. That last could be either landscape or built environment. I found Thomas Canty's work beautiful. He is fairly stylized, but not quite comic illustration. I have also loved Mark Ferrari, but again, not cartoon style. I think part of why I love his work is that I know it is done with colored pencil and I find that mind blowing.
Some like this:
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/fd/ad/e5/fdade5a9207f458407b51c589fe1ee04.jpg
...or https://i.pinimg.com/564x/22/63/82/226382aa5680ba4c76a8c6697bbe4321.jpg
...or https://i.pinimg.com/564x/ad/9f/29/ad9f29388f0c9c352b52f04056be73a2.jpg
...or https://i.pinimg.com/564x/21/9f/42/219f42623b1a9e2104051d6ba4f3ff6e.jpg
Covers that have a detailed base, then have the centerpiece...with a the characters, or a scene,...
It sounded like one of your critiques of the earlier covers was that they didn't make it clear the stories were YA and up. Although I loved the Wingfeather covers, would they attract YA readers? The Heartseekers and Guardians covers you refer to would also communicate stories for younger readers, to me. That Name of the Wind cover is ambiguous, but I already I know the story is appropriate for young adult and adult readers. (I purchased the original cover, which was pretty bad!) If you went for more serious and detailed drawings, like the one you use for this substack, I think that would attract the older audiences.
Good points -- and this is one of the reasons I would want to do some rough drafts and bring them here for review and suggestions as I develop a style.
I know I'll be walking a fine line,...but I started with the point that I have no interest in hiring out for artwork.
I know I have enough skill to adapt to what I need.
You know, I was just thinking about it, and if you keep Wendell on the cover, and he keeps the soul patch, that's going to telegraph that this isn't a middle school book.
Soul Patch??
That little wispy beard he's got.
Oh, def! It's just how gritty to make it.
Okay -- so I'm on the right track. At least TURNED the right way...
I love your cartoon style like the ones you have on WantedHero.com - why not do character portraits and show them in some action pose that fits the story? Try to capture the emotion and story promise of each book with the cover art?
That is one of my main thoughts...for starters. Yes, I want to have Wendell and other characters who are prominent in the current book, acting out a scene from the story...